Wednesday, September 12, 2007

Welsh: Let the market decide - to a point

Susan Crosland once quipped that she dreamt about finding herself in the dentist’s chair with husband Anthony standing over her poised to commence a procedure. When she objected that he knew nothing of dentistry, Crosland reassured her “it’s OK dear, I work from first principles!”

There are times when pragmatism takes over from the noble pursuit of answers from the basis of first principle. But when such an exercise can be carried out it is often a sound way to proceed. Both Ceredig and Martin Eaglestone have spent their most recent posts considering the first principles from which the WAG’s pledged extension of the Welsh language LCO should proceed. Here is my ha’penny’s worth.

Ceredig is correct when he suggests that language equality (which may be deduced as the first principle) begins to look a little like the proposition that neither English nor Welsh speakers should be forced to communicate in other than the language of their choice. That is a right by and large granted in the public sphere, through the existing Welsh Language Act. The question of extending this into the private sector has hitherto been the contentious point; opponents suggest it burdens industry to too great an extent, supporters say that to be meaningful, equality must be enforced in spheres other than the public.

The question, I would suggest, is what we mean by “forced”? To my mind, interaction with providers of monopoly public services is essential on a near-universal basis. If providers of these services do not offer that interaction in the language of your choice, the user is being forced to speak another; he or she cannot go elsewhere. At the other end of the scale, commercial (or merely private) interactions are at the user’s discretion; if the language of choice is not available the user can simply go elsewhere. There is no compulsion to continue this interaction, and the services or goods are likely to be available via other means. There is, in other words, a market for the provision of these goods and services that does not exist in the public sphere.

In between those two exists another class of interaction; services (mainly) which are available elsewhere, but for which a fully competitive market may not exist. The state recognises and chooses to apply additional regulation for the purposes of extending competition and protecting consumers to the providers of these services. They are in the main ex-utilities such as gas, electricity, water and telecoms, as well as postal services and rail transport. By applying sector-specific regulation the state is recognising that its existing panoply of competition law, together with the pressures of the market are insufficient in protecting from abuses, either of competitors or consumers. It strikes me that the users of these services could therefore face a degree of compulsion to use a language not of their choice in their dealings with these providers. Unlike elsewhere in the private sector, the market may not be able to correct for this.

The prescription therefore is simple. Enforceable rights to access services in Welsh should be extended into the private sector – but only as far as the state deems that sufficient competition does not (yet) pertain. Where competition does exist it can determine the appropriate level of provision. If someone wishes to shop for groceries in the medium of Welsh they are free, quite literally, to shop around. If sufficient demand exists, the market will provide it. On the other hand, if they want to choose from one of only a few providers of electricity, all of whom could choose to ignore demand for Welsh language provision, the state will enforce their rights for them.

It's a plan based on first principle and followed to some sort of logical end. Perhaps even more importantly in the real world, it is a compromise both sides may find acceptable.

10 comments:

Alwyn ap Huw said...

The logic of this argument is that my English neighbour can shop in the nearest supermarket, but I might have to make a thirty mile round journey to a supermarket that promises a Welsh language service. Hardly equality is it?

There is no reason why all the larger company's can't provide a Welsh language service. It doesn't mean that every checkout operator needs to be able to speak Welsh, just one out of the 20 or thirty who are often on duty at any one time. This can be achieved in all parts of Wales.

Indeed, in these days of self service checkouts translating the self checkout programme into Welsh would be a small step that goes a long way.

Normal Mouth said...

What's the difference in principle between one checkout in 20 being Welsh-medium and one supermarket in 20? Neither are equality as you have just had it.

Many supermarkets in Wales already have bilingual signage. Why? because it's a marketing plus. The market is already deciding; surely it's not that much of a stretch to see them compete on the basis of having fully trained Welsh-speakers?

Keir Hardly said...

Normal,

I think that compromise is acceptable, and it wasnt too far from what i was calling for. Supply and demand has to be able to appear in private interactions, as i have stated on my own blog, there will be more demand for welsh medium services in Caernarfon then there will in Chepstow.

We must be careful of reaching a tipping point whereby state support of the language doesnt reach a point where people begin to recoil their support. There is an intellectual and subsidy incubation in the welsh cultural and political elite that is at odds with how many people feel about Cymraeg.

Alwyn,

You must recognise that many people wont feel that strongly about having their services in welsh that would want to travel 30 miles out of the way to go to a grocery shop. All the 'small steps' should be driven by demand and not a catch all law that is designed to compel. How would you define a large business? What about a medium size business looking to expand who decide not to because due to the cost of providing services in Welsh from them crossing the 'large' business threshold?

The checkout idea seems a good one, but surely it fits perfectly into the supply and demand model NM and myself (far less succintly) have put forward. Do you accept that a welsh speaking checkout in monmouth will be a waste of time in a practical sense?

johnny foreigner said...

Surely conversational Welsh is not a necessity in order to be 'served' in supermarkets?

It seems to me that the issue would be easily solved by the simple expedient of having a printed Welsh aide memoire, for English monoglots, at each checkout e.g.

Hello.

Would you like some help with your packing?

Enter your pin please.

Thank you.

Goodbye.

If there is a real commercial need for a fully conversational Welsh 'service', then I am sure that the supermarkets will provide it. Depending, of course, if it increases the footfall in their stores.

For those wishing a fully conversational shopping service in Welsh, it may be appropriate to patronise the more local shops that may willingly provide you with your goods and a nice chat in Welsh.

Of course, the increased cost to the shopkeeper in terms of the time engaged in this essential conversation would be reflected in the increased prices that the local shop would be quite entitled to charge.

IMHO, the shopping experience nowadays mainly consists of the scanning of the articles, the taking of your money and showing you the door.

On the other hand, if one requires a shopping experience in Hindi, Bengali, Gujarati, Urdu, Kashmiri or even Punjabi, that service is freely available at the vast majority of local shops throughout Wales.

Time marches on.

Your passively purchasing pal.

johnny.

PS. Please support your local traders as many of them won't be around for much longer, unfortunately.

Republicanos said...

NM - an interesting take on the issue which avoids the tiresome polemic so often displayed by both sides. I think the compromise you mention may be worth pursuing as a real-world solution.

Anonymous said...

But can everything be left to the market? Don't governments have to lead sometimes?

For instance judged by market forces there was no demand for smoke-free pubs in Wales. If there had been a demand the market would have provided them. Pubs that went smoke-free in Wales almost invariably reversed the policy in a matter of weeks due to loss of trade.
Yet WAG (for good reasons) enforced a policy on all pubs that had failed to work in the handful that had tried it voluntarily. If commercial companies can take that level of interference why can't they handle language rules?

johnny foreigner said...

The smoking ban was entirely based on clearly defined Health Issues, which can hardly be applied to a Language Issue.

Your previously puffing pal.

johnny.

hafod said...

Agree with Alwyn.

I had an MOT on the car yesterday. The printout of the faults (they were many!) was bilingual. This is in a garage 10 miles from the English border, so there seems to be software available for this kind of thing.

hafod said...

I'm bemused by people claiming that the public sector is now bilingual.

Outside a few councils, the extent of bilingualism is often a
- "bore da" from the receptionist before an apologetic "I don't speak Welsh",
- some bilingual signs (I had to ask the council to put our road sign up bilingually when they put a new one up 3 years ago - this probably makes me an extremist)
- waiting about a fortnight extra for any Welsh language correspondence to be translated.

Some councils are OK but a lot are just going through the motions.

ordovicius said...

'm bemused by people claiming that the public sector is now bilingual.

Quite. For example, Gwynedd is -as far as I'm aware- the only county in y Fro Gymraeg which uses Welsh as its executive first language,

Indeed, in these days of self service checkouts translating the self checkout programme into Welsh would be a small step that goes a long way.

True enough

I have to say though that beyond a Welsh/bilingual checkout programme, I wouldn't place supermarket checkout staff high on my list of priorities. That there should be bilingual information: yes. That there should be a Welsh speaking member of staff present: yes, but on the checkout? Generally I go to the checkout with the shortest queue, and whether the person working there speaks English or Welsh doesn't generally force me to resort to English, as even a complete newcomer to Wales can understand shaking the head whilst saying 'Nag oes', nodding with an 'Oes', and the word "diolch".

In the context of supermarkets and the like the area where Welsh speakers are most needed are those where actual whole sentences are involved, such as making an enquiry or a complaint etc.