Monday, March 10, 2008

The gap between Labour and Plaid is about the gap itself

Two vividly different visions of society appear today from Wales's two parties of government. Superficially at least Plaid’s vow to redistribute wealth claims the leftist mantle, while Labour exhort us instead to celebrate the filthy rich.

But is the picture this straightforward? Plaid condemn income injustice as too great for even the middle classes to tolerate, such is the gulf between them and the super-rich. The party proposes potential tax measures to narrow the gap. Labour, via John Hutton, meanwhile suggests that tackling poverty remains the goal, but such an end does not require capping wealth. These are not just different but contradictory visions. One measures the good society by the gap between its best and least well off. The other stresses that above an income floor there is no ceiling.

I welcome Hutton's vision and worry about Plaid's. Tackling inequality sounds such an axiomatically good thing that the British left have hardly ever stopped to really scrutinise its implications. Among those are that it will always be easier to reduce income inequality by tackling those at the very top than by helping those at the very bottom. The super-rich are few in number and do not support parties of the left. Soaking them reduces inequality but does little or nothing for those at the bottom. Ironically, given Plaid's focus on the "coping class", a wider redistribution within the system is needed to provided the resources necessary to do such a thing. That means taxing the very class the Nationalists now say they want to help. The other irony is that a strict focus on reducing the gap makes this less likely, since redistribution from other than top to bottom may not reduce the gap.

But the main trouble with a focus on closing the gap is that, perversely, overall levels of prosperity can quickly be forgotten; it hardly matters if everyone gets poorer, so long as those at the top get poorer at a faster rate. Since this is easier to achieve, perverse policy goals are almost inevitable.

Hutton meanwhile surely gets far closer to a modern conception of the good society. Its primary goal is to eradicate poverty, spreading the opportunity that greater prosperity provides as widely as possible, and far more widely than at present. The super-rich in this vision are not something to be put up with so that the rest can get a little richer – that belongs to discredited “trickle down” economic theory. No, super-rich people are examples of a society that, having put the floor in place treats people with dignity and does not seek to limit their potential. The rub, as Marcus points out, is that this true meritocracy does not exist, and does not looking like coming into being. I agree that we are a long way off that time. The point is that it could come about under this vision. Under Plaid’s it could not.

Update: Marcus has posted a well-argued reply on his blog.

12 comments:

Southpaw Grammar said...

NM,

To further my point, it is about how you get to Hutton's vision is what is most pressing, Child Poverty targets are not being met because of lack of money from government, yet we cannot even begin to even consider perhaps asking the super rich to pay some tax, or even non doms to pay £30,000 a year. We cannot give agency workers (many are the 'working poor' that we need to lift our of poverty) equal rights at the workplace so they can have the security needed to pull themselves out of poverty.

Thats the underlying point for me

Southpaw Grammar said...

http://southpawgrammarwales.blogspot.com/2008/03/normal-but-not-this-time-mouth.html

My reply comrade.

hafod said...

The filthy rich are so because they exploit the poor. For the former to remain in their state of filthy richdom, the poor must also remain.
That's why agencies where I live are now offering minimum wage contracts for working nights and weekends. No overtime, no shift payments. Take it or leave it.
New Labour sold its soul to the super rich a long time ago. Perhaps it needs to find new backers because its union backers have had enough.
The RMT and FBU have left in disgust. The CWU is likely to go in May, Amicus trade unionists are quitting over Remploy and Unite is seeking to sever its financial supports with Kim Howells over his Colombian visit.
Hutton is only articulating the "greed is good" ethos that pervades the political elite, whether Labour or Tory.

Normal Mouth said...

I don't think he is advocating greed so much as saying that lifting people out of poverty is more important than capping others' pay.

But I think it is legitimate to ask whether Labour is doing anything like enough to lift people out of poverty.

Anonymous said...

How do you 'lift people out of poverty' if wealth isn't redistributed from the rich? Where does this money come from?

Normal Mouth said...

You increase the size of the cake.

Ceredig said...

Norm,

"Increasing the size of the cake" sounds like a simple alternative answer, but it only works if you have an absolute definition of poverty. The problem is that poverty is actually defined in a relative way, rather than an absolute way. (If memory serves me correctly, it's something like 'less than 60% of average wages').

On this basis, no matter how big the cake, there will always be people in poverty. The only way that you can eliminate poverty on this basis is by drastically reducing differentials, if my mathematics is correct. That inevitably implies at least a degree of redistribution doesn't it?

Normal Mouth said...

he problem is that poverty is actually defined in a relative way

The government define (and measure) poverty in both ways. I was talking about absolute poverty.

But you are of course correct that a reduction in relative poverty means the shares of the cake have to change. Ironically, given PC's emphasis on the "coping class" this will have to be from middle to lower in order to reduce relative poverty.

Anonymous said...

Normal Mouth said...
Y"ou increase the size of the cake."

How? By turning on the printing press?

Anonymous said...

So, it's by turning on the printing press and then fudging the inflation figures.....typical Nulabour.

Ceredig said...

Norm,

Yes, they measure it in both ways. My understanding was that the targets for 'elimination' of poverty also applied to both; and the target most usually talked about, as far as I can see, is the relative one. (Although, mathematically, I suspect it's pretty near impossible to ever eliminate relative poverty.)

It's theoretically easier to eliminate absolute poverty, provided that the goal posts don't continually move. By that I mean simply that what is considered to be poverty today might actually look like a reasonable level of affluence to someone from the 40's or 50's (or indeed at any earlier time).

You are right, of course, about who would be hit by any conceivable degree of meaningful redistribution. It's easy to attack the extremely wealthy - and sometimes they deserve it - but people tend to forget how few of them there really are. Short of absolutely punitive taxation measures - stripping them of their wealth, effectively - any redistribution needs to come lower down the scale as you say.

But surely, this isn't just a problem for Plaid? Anyone who wants to reduce the level of relative poverty has to face up to this same issue, don't they?

Normal Mouth said...

But surely, this isn't just a problem for Plaid?

Of course not. I made my observation in the context ofthe party's pre-budget emphasis on helping the beleaguered middle classes.